In part II (below), Marc and Phil get into playlisting, how to work with DSPs(digital service providers) and some tips and tricks on getting a little more traction when you release new music. There is more advice offered up about paid marketing, but Phil urges artists to do what feels right for them and the music. Phil also answers a few quick questions from the audience.<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Brown:<\/strong> There\u2019s a lot of focus on playlists across music, but as you said, there isn\u2019t just one singular goal of getting on a playlist. Creating your own playlist can be a way to build a community. Do you have other tips and tricks that you can share that are outside of playlist-pitching to streaming platforms? <\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil Loutsis:<\/strong> There are loads to focus on! The editorial and playlist support is a hugely important piece of the journey, but outside of that there\u2019s so much you can do that is different. <\/p>\n\n\n\n One I really like is trying to link up with third-party playlisters. If you find someone curating a playlist that you find really great, that\u2019s incredible for exposure. Even if there are just 1,000 followers on the playlist, if it\u2019s a very specific genre then those 1,000 followers could love your music and become your biggest fans. Sometimes working with third parties is a long process as you\u2019ll have to develop a relationship with them, but it can be more effective than New Music Friday (Spotify). Another direction you can go in is optimizing your channels on streaming platforms. Make sure you have pinned your biggest playlist and latest release, and that you\u2019ve pitched your latest release 2 weeks out. My knowledge is limited on what you can do on smaller platforms, but it doesn’t take a lot of time to put some effort into Amazon, Spotify, Deezer, Apple & or YouTube. That would be a really smart move.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> For some reason, BandCamp just popped into my mind. On these calls, we usually end up discussing the bigger platforms but since you deal a lot with indie artists, do they ever talk about BandCamp? I know that it\u2019s a good platform for supporting artists, but is it a good place for discovery?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> BandCamp is an awesome platform. It\u2019s a very artist and music-focused platform so I think it\u2019s a really good tool. It\u2019s not one I work with often, it\u2019s a bit more merchandise<\/a> focused than I tend to be but it\u2019s definitely worth investing energy in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> What about albums versus EPs. You work across a lot of different genres so I was wondering what your thoughts are on that. Are there certain things that work better for different genres? <\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> There\u2019s an endless amount of inconsistency now because you can do whatever you want, and it\u2019s important to do that. I\u2019m always going to say that the artist should do whatever they feel they need to do artistically. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> We have another question from the audience:<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u201cWe\u2019ve heard that the DSPs (digital service providers) do not like duplicate releases these days and that full albums should be kept for the album release. We have also been told that when the album goes in for release and if too many tracks are being re-released it could hurt the marketing of the album. Is that true?\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If you take the LAUV<\/a> album that came out last year as an example – lots of tracks had dropped and done really well, and the album was largely composed of those tracks, but the album still did fantastically and got lots of support. Normally when an album drops, there\u2019s a focus track for that release. That track should be a track that hasn\u2019t been pitched yet. Also, platforms don\u2019t like multiple versions of the same song – don\u2019t go pitching the radio edit and then the album version because it\u2019s the same track. The mindset to be in is that you\u2019re pitching to a curator who loves music. So when they think about whether the song fits in their playlist or not, the song being shorter is probably not going to make the difference, so there\u2019s no point in pitching it twice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> Makes sense. So next question – shorter edits are usually preferred for radio. Has that moved on to streaming – are you seeing that shorter tracks get more playlist placement?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> That\u2019s a tricky one. I think you just have to make the track as good as you can make it rather than worrying about the length. Make the track the length you think is appropriate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> I agree, I think it\u2019s super important as an artist to make music the way you want to make it. If you\u2019re just following a road map that you think will get you to where you want to go, it\u2019s a bit of a dead-end road.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We have another question – when you release a song, can you release it on one platform first, then gradually release it on other platforms<\/a>? <\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> There isn\u2019t much benefit, that I can think of. To put it simply, the gains that you would get by going to one platform may not be worth it because you lose all of the other platforms. Also, we don\u2019t tend to see audiences drifting across multiple different platforms – you\u2019re either a Spotify user or an Apple user etc. So, if you\u2019re just on Spotify, all of your fans who aren\u2019t Spotify users won\u2019t have access to your music.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> I never thought of it that way, you have a great point. Another question – is it confusing if people do single releases before an album? Like if you release one track, then another, then the album?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think most people are paying attention to the way releases are coming out – they just drift into your world however they\u2019re listening. For me, I do some discovery each week on Spotify to find new tracks. Whether it\u2019s part of an album or not, I don\u2019t really know. That being said, there are a few different approaches. One way is that you drop track number one as a single, and then about six weeks later you drop track number two, and then six weeks later you drop track number three with tracks one and two, and the bundle just keeps getting bigger. The benefit of that is that once you get to track number four and you\u2019re marketing that release, and someone hits play on the track, they might play it through and listen to all the tracks. It\u2019s simple things like that that can be helpful in getting more streams. That\u2019s how waterfall releasing<\/a> can work and be effective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc:<\/strong> There are a few other things I want to talk about. One of them is the idea of paid marketing<\/a> – to me, it sounds super scary. The way you articulated it makes it sound super easy, so I want to talk about why I think it\u2019s so scary and why you think it\u2019s so easy. Why do you think it\u2019s so important that artists get on it right away?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Phil:<\/strong> I completely understand why it\u2019s an area people will struggle to get started with – it looks like a lot of money for nothing and you don\u2019t know what will and won\u2019t work. <\/p>\n\n\n\n There are multiple ways you can dip your toe in the pool <\/a>to work out what is effective and what isn\u2019t. I can suggest a few effective tips:<\/p>\n\n\n\n First, you need to be cautious when investing money into playlist pitching tools. It\u2019s not that difficult to spot the things that might be risky. If a platform is saying pay us and we\u2019ll give you a certain number of streams, they\u2019re not doing it in a way that is legit because you can\u2019t commit to that amount of streams. <\/p>\n\n\n\n The ones who aren\u2019t guaranteeing things, but are guaranteeing that curators will have a listen are fine. I\u2019ve worked with SubmitHub<\/a> and PlaylistPush<\/a> – I did get tracks on playlists there. These are good because it\u2019s easy to get a foot in the door, you don\u2019t have to commit a lot of money and you develop relationships with playlist curators. It\u2019s something you can do before the release, on release day or even after.<\/p>\n\n\n\n One thing that is common is that once the release comes out and it doesn\u2019t go how you wanted, you feel deflated but in my opinion, there is loads you can do after release day. You can start looking at trying to share the release more and using these playlist platforms. <\/p>\n\n\n\n A second option is b00st.com<\/a>. I worked with them recently, and I was able to share the music and some artwork and gave them $50 which is their minimum. The results were great – people were clicking on it and they were listening to the playlist. That\u2019s a great first step. A second step could be more complicated like testing 2 different ads. It\u2019s useful to start with these simple things – it doesn\u2019t make sense to spend thousands of dollars, but it does make sense to spend a bit of money and see what works. If it doesn\u2019t work, don\u2019t keep doing it, abandon it and try something else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Another piece of advice – if you\u2019re looking to spend some marketing budget on socials, look at which channel is kicking off<\/a> the most organically. <\/p>\n\n\n\n![\"Phil](\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/06\/phil-1.png\")
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