{"id":4112,"date":"2022-06-16T13:53:32","date_gmt":"2022-06-16T13:53:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/?post_type=in-conversation&p=4112"},"modified":"2022-06-23T13:38:13","modified_gmt":"2022-06-23T13:38:13","slug":"junior-foster-part-ii","status":"publish","type":"in-conversation","link":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/junior-foster-part-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Live: In Conversation with Junior Foster Part II of III"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Part II of III<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In part II (below), Junior talks about music discovery and keeping his \u201cgood ears\u201d to the ground for the next big thing. Live is incredibly important at informing how the music connects with audiences, so there are many many shows to be seen. Junior gives a few examples of Deezer\u2019s artist discovery process and their approach to their own creative projects.<\/h3>\n\n\n\n

It should be noted that Junior went over and above by being a part of this edition of #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation<\/em>. <\/em>He was speaking to Marc from the hospital where his son, Oscar, had just been born days earlier, mid-COVID crisis.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc Brown:<\/strong> One thing that I remember from when I did radio was that a lot of the time, people think, \u201cOh, people just got to radio stations and say – play this,\u201d or that it\u2019s one-way traffic. What I like about what you are saying is the idea of a conversation. Ultimately that is the key to success. I\u2019m guessing you are certainly not sitting around waiting for someone to email you about a new artist or band or record. Tell me about some of the ways you find music\u2026 because the whole idea of our series #HowWeListen is that everybody\u2019s different, so you could do your job a certain way, but maybe someone else on your team does it a different way. What do you like to do to find new music when it is not just coming to you across your desk? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior Foster:<\/strong> I am a lover of music, and I know a lot of people say that, but it\u2019s the truth for me. Sometimes it\u2019s quite difficult to balance because now I\u2019ve got a second child here and I am happily married, but I go to a lot of gigs. I think I regularly averaged on a typical week, pre-pandemic, about three gigs a week. I\u2019m in and out all the time. When I say I\u2019m at gigs, I will go for the support act as well, just to keep an eye out. I like to see what\u2019s going on. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Festivals are always a great place for me. I’m so happy that live music is back again because we need that. The industry needs that, and musicians need that too. And then other ways I find music are the team that I have around me, my friends and the associates that I have around. It is constant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There is never a point when I\u2019m not listening to something, someone has just sent me something, or I am asking about an artist I\u2019m hearing rumblings about. For me, that is me being out, people pinging things to me all the time. Like I could quite comfortably walk past my cousin and be like, \u201cWhat are you listening to, mate?\u201d (my cousin is what I could call a youngin\u2019), and ask, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on in your world?\u201d If he tells me about this new sound that\u2019s happening and tells me to have a listen, I\u2019ll listen to it. I\u2019m constantly sucking up sounds at a gig or at a festival. I\u2019m around a lot. That\u2019s the only way you can pick up music, be outdoors and have your ears open and allow yourself to leave the door open and let the music in. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Let\u2019s just assume you\u2019re out, and so, for those three gigs, do you know all the artists playing on them already? Is it that common? Or are there a couple of the supports that you\u2019ve never heard of? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior: <\/strong>Ya, it could be that way, definitely. My team covers different disciplines, so you know everyone looks after a different account. That could be artists on major labels or my small team that looks after indies. They\u2019re always talking about, \u201cOh, we\u2019ve got this new artist coming along that\u2019s being released on one of the smaller indie labels,\u201d and I\u2019ll be like, \u201cYa, I\u2019ll come!\u201d and I\u2019ll just turn up, I\u2019ll come and say hello to the representative, and we\u2019ll go and listen and see what\u2019s going on. See who their manager is. Are they signed, or are they not? If they\u2019re not signed, we could have a conversation, and we’ll do the chat. It doesn\u2019t have to be necessarily someone I\u2019ve heard of, because at the end of the day, if you only go to listen to people you\u2019ve heard of, then your library will be relatively boring. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>Say you go to a gig and someone from your team says, \u201cLook, we\u2019ve got this artist, I\u2019ve sort of heard of them,\u201d and you go, \u201cYa sure I\u2019ll go check it out\u201d, and it blows your mind. They\u2019re amazing live, and you don\u2019t understand why you don\u2019t know about them. Does it happen a lot that you and your team find something and think, \u201cWow, why aren\u2019t we on this more?\u201d I know everything is data-driven, but there\u2019s still lots of emotion in music, right? How often does the team think, \u201cYou know what? People aren\u2019t telling us that this is a massive priority. However, we think it is because of what we know about music\u201d? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior: <\/strong>At Deezer, that happens a lot of the time. For argument\u2019s sake, there was an artist that, at the time, nobody really knew about. He wasn\u2019t signed in the UK, he was signed out of Germany, and nobody knew who he was. We loved him, loved him, loved him. Playlisted him, I pushed and pushed and pushed. Nobody else was really tracking this artist for a long time. As none of the other DSPs, but we worked him. Fast forward and it eventually clicked for him. It picked up, and everybody started playlisting him. Fast forward again, and that artist is Lewis Capaldi, <\/a>and he then went global very quickly. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

People only see the end of a journey. When I talk about conversations, we worked with Lewis a year and a half before anybody picked him up. A year and a half out, we\u2019d already heard a lot of music, and nobody was really interested. People were saying, \u201cOh, he looks a bit, you know, unusual. He\u2019s a very unusual guy\u201d. Those types of ballads weren\u2019t the in-wave thing at the time. However, we were working with him because we loved his work and him. We worked with him for a good year and a half, and then he broke through. He deserved everything that came to him. He put in a lot of work for it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about when I say \u201cfeeling\u201d. When I talk about data, data is about when we get this artist onto the platform when they\u2019re already there. But before that, if they\u2019re relatively new or exist in a different medium\u2026 then I might look at the data over there, but I trust my ears. My ears are very good\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Those good old ears you\u2019ve got! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior: <\/strong>Those good old ears. My team is very diverse, so they\u2019re not all clones of me. They can come and say, \u201cYou know what? There\u2019s this different genre that you don\u2019t overly listen to but listen to this. What do you think?\u201d And I think, OK, let\u2019s go and see what we can do! I like to go and see an artist live. Instead of looking at the artist and their performance, I can look left and right and look at the crowd. What are the crowd doing? Are the crowd loving it? Are the crowd interacting? Are they singing along to the song? I soak it all up because it is all meaningful; it\u2019s emotion. Music is emotion and art at the end of the day. You need that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> We have a question. In the case of Lewis Capaldi, \u201c…were you all hired by the German label to push him?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n

But that was not the case. It\u2019s that you all just liked him, right? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior: <\/strong>We aren\u2019t hired by anybody. I just want to narrow that one down early. Nobody hires us; we don\u2019t report back to anybody in that way. For argument\u2019s sake, anybody could play me something, and I\u2019ll go, \u201cWhat\u2019s that?\u201d and then I\u2019m going to have a conversation. A label can come and say, \u201cWe need you to do this\u201d, but that\u2019s not how a conversation goes. I want to know what\u2019s going on. So, if it works and it works for us, and we\u2019ve got a good lead time, enough time to work it, we\u2019ll get involved. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

We don\u2019t necessarily have to work something because somebody feels this is the biggest thing from their side of the fence. \u201cThis artist is massive. You have to do x, y, and z!\u201d Well, no, we will do what makes sense for our users. If your artist is engaging us and we can build a relationship, then we\u2019ll do more. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I just want to clarify that we don\u2019t get hired by anybody. We work on things that we like. We know what our audience likes and what is in line with what Deezer is trying to do. Which is to be the champion of local heroes, which is our ethos. Deezer\u2019s ethos is about championing local heroes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s also interesting how you\u2019ve highlighted the fact that you all picked something like Lewis. You picked something that you all thought was right for your users and your listener. Whereas it\u2019s not like, \u201cOh, all the other DSPs are on this\u201d, or somebody in radio was into it. It\u2019s that you were supporting him this whole way because it meant something to all of you and your listeners. This is irrespective of what\u2019s happening elsewhere. Typically people think, \u201cOh well, I\u2019m sure all the DSPs play that\u201d, or \u201cAll the same radio stations play that\u201d. It\u2019s not like that. It\u2019s much more nuanced, is it not? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior: <\/strong>Well ya, don\u2019t get me wrong, you know there are certain artists, established artists that you know what they\u2019re about, and you know they\u2019re going to do very well because they make brilliant music. With those artists, you kind of already knows what you\u2019re going to get. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

With Deezer and Lewis, I\u2019m talking about those new artists, the artists that haven’t found their way yet, who haven\u2019t settled into their craft yet. They know what they\u2019re doing. They\u2019re edgy, but they\u2019re still trying to find themselves, but are making this incredible music. This is what Deezer does in all of our markets. Editorial teams and our Artist Relations teams have their ears to the ground. They understand that an artist might not be a fully polished artist who is confident on stage, with an amazing team and the best managers. They can, however, see this artist has passion and soul, and they\u2019ve got good music. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

At the end of the day, if you\u2019ve got good music, it will find its way through the noise. Which is what Deezer is. Deezer will be ears to the ground in all of our markets. \u201cHey Junior, I\u2019ve heard this great artist from Scotland\u201d, and I say, \u201cOk, who\u2019s that?\u201d and here is another artist, it\u2019s Gerry Cinnamon, who realistically you probably wouldn\u2019t really know. But when you go see him, he\u2019s massive, like massive\u2026 he\u2019s playing to lots of people who are singing back all his songs. It\u2019s all about feelings. It\u2019s about how good your music is. If your music is great, it will find its way through, and people will support it. That is what Deezer does. We work with established artists, but we also want to work with those artists that are just trying to find their way. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t know who Gerry Cinnamon was when you told me about him. Then I watched some of the videos on YouTube, and it\u2019s one dude and forty-thousand people. I was super impressed. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was also impressed with how you articulated this local hero idea and what\u2019s important to Deezer, and this ethos you all have. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

 <\/strong>I think many artists think, \u201cOk, well, if I press a button and my music goes out to all these DSPs, then the same thing happens everywhere,\u201d and what you\u2019ve highlighted for me is that no, these DSPs have different personalities. Let\u2019s talk about the Deezer culture in that way. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Junior Foster:<\/strong> The Deezer culture is this about the local hero, and I mentioned it before. You push your music out, it gets playlisted, you exist, and your fan base goes onto Deezer, and they put your name in the search, and there\u2019s your music. We run a lot of different things at Deezer, what we call \u201cactivations\u201d or Deezer originals, which we can have artists be a part of. Do something slightly different and push it back out again to Deezer users. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

This year, we released our second part of an activation called \u201cInversions 80s.\u201d There was an original inversion, and then there was an Inversion 80s. We worked specifically only with indie artists. No conventional pop artists, only indie. For \u201cInversions 80s\u201d, we asked them to recover a track from the 80s or the 80s decade and cover the song. We paid for the mix and the mastering, plus we contributed towards the recording studio costs. We filmed it, we\u2019ve done interviews for it, we\u2019ve done all the artwork. All the artists had to do was go and cover the track. We put that together and put it out as a complete playlist with loads of marketing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

For Inversions 80s, we had some outdoor publicity in the UK, in the Westfield Shopping Center, and we had a lot of digital marketing going on at a global level. These artists were able to amplify themselves to a level that they would never normally get at that stage in their careers for their own releases. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

On Inversions 80s,<\/a> we had a new artist coming through that then released an EP, Holly Humberstone<\/a>. We had Benny Sings<\/a> on there from the Netherlands. We had Laura Mvula<\/a>, who has had a challenging career path for those of you who don\u2019t know. We had some artists from France on there. We had the return of CSS from Brazil, who covered Buffalo Stance by Neneh Cherry… The first song they\u2019d actually done in ten years. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

All of these artists are operating in a genre of music that isn\u2019t necessarily in-fad, and this is no disrespect to these artists. I\u2019m just saying in terms of context. It\u2019s not a Lana Del Rey, not an Adele, it\u2019s not an Ed Sheeran, it\u2019s not a Rosalia from the Latin part of the world. It\u2019s not that sized artist! These artists are making a unique kind of music, and we encourage them to do some more of that, but we also open them up to different genres of music and new audiences\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another Deezer originals thing that we\u2019ve done\u2026 because the one thing you\u2019ll find with Deezer is that we aren\u2019t frightened of doing things that might come across as \u201cOh, that\u2019s a bit strange\u201d, we like to have fun. We did an ASMR campaign<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>Can you explain what ASMR<\/a> is?

Junior:<\/strong> In a nutshell, ASMR (Autonomous sensory meridian response) is about a user listening to a sequence of sounds that play with their perception and senses. It\u2019s sensory music or sensory content. That could be from someone talking, and you can hear the moisture in their mouth. It could be someone scratching a chalkboard. Various different things, some of them send you to sleep, and some of them keep you awake. There are loads of different ways to interact with it. I challenge everyone to go and listen to it because it\u2019s quite creepy in certain places but quite unique. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So what we wanted to do was go to artists and say to them, \u201cWe want you to record your biggest track in a whisper, whisper the whole song, don\u2019t rhyme it, just whisper it start to finish. Give us those files, and we will work with some ASMR producers to layer the vocals together to make an ASMR project.\u201d What that\u2019s done is force the consumer to listen to a song in a completely different light. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, for example, we had Alicia Keys, Sir Tom Jones, James Blunt, Young Blood, and what they\u2019ve done is\u2026 OK, you know Tom Jones\u2019 \u201cWhat\u2019s New Pussycat,\u201d a very upbeat and simple song. But when Tom\u2019s whispering it to you<\/a>, when we\u2019ve put loads of textures over it, it takes a very different route. We package that all up. With Alicia Keys, there\u2019s a bit at the front where she almost starts laughing because she\u2019s just having a ball doing \u201cFalling<\/a>.\u201d We packaged it all up, and we put it out, and then we\u2019ve done another half of that with real ASMR content curators, and they\u2019ve made their own tracks. We put all of that together, and we put that out into the universe because why not? It worked really, really well, and the public loved it. And then we move on. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Again, we do many things like this. We did stuff with the classical artists for Beethoven last year. Beethoven recomposed and remixed<\/a>, so one half was classical artists reinterpreting Beethoven\u2019s works, and then on the other side, it was electronic artists reinterpreting Beethoven\u2019s work. You know, on the classical side, you have Brian Eno on there, who\u2019s done some exceptional work on a track. You had someone like Steve Aoki doing something completely different on the dance side. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The point is that we work with these more prominent artists and with smaller artists from the classical world or the dance world. We like to bring established and mid-tier artists\u2026 throw them together in a genre that does not generally get as much light as, let\u2019s say, rap artists or your big pop stars. That\u2019s what Deezer is, we will always do something slightly different, and at first, you\u2019d be thinking, that\u2019s a bit different, but then when you look at it, the artist has had a great time and has done something completely different. The consumers love it because we\u2019re pushing boundaries. We\u2019re trying to do different things that aren\u2019t normal. That\u2019s Deezer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Want to read on? Head to Part III here<\/a>!<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"template":"","format":"standard","tags":[],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nLive: In Conversation with Junior Foster Part II of III- #HowWeListen from Byta<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Junior talks about the importance of live music for artists and Deezer's discovery process - including their artist activations and projects.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/junior-foster-part-ii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Live: In Conversation with Junior Foster Part II of III- #HowWeListen from Byta\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Junior talks about the importance of live music for artists and Deezer's discovery process - 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