{"id":5076,"date":"2022-09-26T12:52:13","date_gmt":"2022-09-26T12:52:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/?post_type=in-conversation&p=5076"},"modified":"2022-09-27T02:52:59","modified_gmt":"2022-09-27T02:52:59","slug":"miller-williams-part-ii","status":"publish","type":"in-conversation","link":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/miller-williams-part-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Live in Conversation: Miller Williams Part II of II"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

In Part II (below) <\/em>Marc and Miller delve into the world of K-Pop, and J-Pop. Then how different territories around the world have unique ways of working. They also discuss the developing African music ecosystem. Plus, how to approach one\u2019s career if just starting out: deal or no deal\u2026? When to hold up and when to sign up.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miss Part I? Head back to read here<\/a>. <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc Brown<\/strong>: I have a strange, or maybe not so strange question. What should someone do if they have stage fright or a terrible voice – probably never going to play live? What would you do if someone walked through your door, they are an amazing songwriter but don\u2019t want to be a singer or performer. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller Williams:<\/strong> Again it comes down to the relationships that you form with other songwriters and managers. It\u2019s about networking and finding those songwriters who are on your level and promoting yourself to them. For example, how did Justin Bieber find Omah Lay<\/a> and decide to do a song with him? Justin Bieber heard one of his songs, found him on Instagram and reached out to him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>That is insane, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>It is! So I always say to writers. If you hear something online that you like, do a little bit of research and send them a message! You might not get an answer but if you do it enough, it could pan out. It\u2019s also about being strategic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I tell our writers that we do a lot of work putting sessions together and pitching songs, so I expect the writers to be their own engine with us as well. The reason why some of the successful writers are where they are is that they\u2019re really good networkers and people like to work with them, so they get repeat business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Kobalt<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> What are sessions – is that like a writer’s camp? How would a songwriter get in on that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah. There are a lot of these camps now. Ultra Records<\/a> is running a camp now down in Cornwall in September. So they usually come to us and let us know about their camp and ask us to recommend people for it. Then we pitch some of the writers that we think might be good for that camp.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The other thing we like to do is put our writers directly in the room with the artist because there\u2019s a bigger chance that the artist might like the writer and the song and want to release it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Ah I see, so the shortest distance between the two points is to get a writer in the room with the artist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah. If the artist doesn\u2019t wind up using the song but the song is really good, we also have a shot of maybe getting the song as a sync for something else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Makes sense. Now I want to talk a bit about the Japanese and South Korean markets. Can you tell me about that music scene and about \u201cthe adapter\u201d?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller<\/strong>: Well, if you have a chance of getting a song recorded by a K-Pop or J-Pop band like Red Velvet or Ivy, you\u2019ll have to give up a share to someone we call the local adapter. Adapters re-write songs in different languages.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> So are they translators?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> Not really. They may keep the chorus or some parts in English but that\u2019s it. They rewrite the song. For example, we\u2019ve just got a song that\u2019s being recorded by a K-Pop band, originally called \u201cScared of the Dark\u201d and it\u2019s been retitled to \u201cQueen of Hearts\u201d so it\u2019s not a straight translation at all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Depending on who the songwriter is it usually makes sense to go with a K-Pop or J-Pop band rather than an international one in those markets because the local artists dominate the charts there. The other big difference is that they also tend to still buy CDs in those markets which makes a difference financially.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> So the mechanicals would be higher because the mechanical royalty on a CD is much higher than getting a stream, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> That\u2019s correct. It takes a bit longer for the money to come from Korea but overall, songwriters will earn more money. We had the band Ive<\/a> release \u201cLove Dive<\/a>\u201d in Korea and I think the first day sales were about 200,000 CDs (the first month was 544,339 copies)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>Wow, that\u2019s like a billion streams!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> Yeah, you won\u2019t get many bands in the UK that can sell that many in 1 day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Japan is also quite insular, they don\u2019t export anywhere near as much as the Koreans do for a variety of reasons, but it\u2019s still a very lucrative market if you can get your song placed with a J-Pop act.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>That\u2019s so interesting, the idea that things work in different ways all over the world. I think these different stories you\u2019re telling convey the message that there\u2019s not one way of doing things. I\u2019m here in Stockholm, so it\u2019s cool to think that someone around the corner could be writing songs for records that are released in South Korea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I know you have also been doing more stuff in Africa, how is the infrastructure for publishing there, like copyright societies, royalty collection, distribution etc?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>I would say most of our income for the African artists or writers that we publish would be coming from outside of Africa. Most of the artists who are signed to emPawa Africa<\/a> (a talent incubation initiative to nurture and support up-and-coming artists in Africa.) don\u2019t belong to the local society. If they did join it, they likely wouldn\u2019t see any income from it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Is it because they don\u2019t have the contacts to collect it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>It\u2019s mostly just that they\u2019re not up to speed yet. However, I think it will change pretty rapidly because in the past, music was a physical thing but now everyone has a mobile phone so it will start to change. Ultimately, the governments in those countries will have to have a look at their local societies and sort them out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That is what is happening in China – they\u2019ve amended their international copyright laws because the government realized that they weren\u2019t collecting enough money. There is a light at the end of the tunnel but I think it will take a bit of time for Africa to catch up because most of the music that\u2019s consumed in Africa is local, it\u2019s not necessarily Western artists. I think there will be a push because there is so much talent and diversity there, so they need to create a sustainable music industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Yeah, we were talking about how big and diverse it is in our last interview with Chioma Onuchukwu<\/a>. It is wrong to even refer to the music as \u201cAfrican\u201d because each region like East or West Africa is different and unique. To generalize is impossible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Very true. I know Universal has opened an office, and Sony Publishing has opened an office in Nigeria and Lagos so that\u2019s great. I can\u2019t say that if you did XY and Z it would fix the problem, I think it just needs time. The more famous African and Afrobeats artists get, the better it will become. You just need to make sure that there\u2019s a sustainable industry in the countries the artists are based.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>How you would describe the progress made by African artists so far in the time that you\u2019ve been involved with them on the publishing side? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>I have only been working with African artists for the last two years, so not very long. But look at WizKiz<\/a>, BurnaBoy<\/a>, Mr Eazi<\/a>, Tems<\/a> – those artists are making an impact in the wider world which reflects well. From a publishing collections point of view, our deals are also doing well and we\u2019re seeing money from all different parts of the world come in. It\u2019s also great because we\u2019ve seen a lot of collaborations with artists from all over the world which create more opportunities for these artists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> What do you think should be done to bridge the gap? Is aligning with international collection agencies the right path? It\u2019s kind of a catch-22 because you want the local agencies to do well but if you\u2019re worried about your career and you only have one chance. Maybe you do not want to be the guinea pig.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> Ha! That\u2019s exactly it. Well, there\u2019s SAMRO<\/a> which is good – it\u2019s the South African music rights organization. I know David at Sheer Music<\/a> does a lot of education across other parts of Africa so it just needs some time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right now, if you\u2019re wanting to join a good performing arts society I\u2019m not so sure how the other ones are apart from SAMRO. You may want to join some of the bigger ones for the time being and then you can always switch back!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that you could do that! So me being in Sweden, I could just join SOCAN<\/a> in Canada?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah! I\u2019ve had one writer who was in three different societies. I said it was too complicated and they should just join one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> What was their logic behind that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think there was any. I do think it makes your life more complicated because you need to keep in touch with multiple societies to make sure you\u2019re getting all of your royalties as a songwriter. Plus a publisher has to remember which society is collecting for which place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Marc:<\/strong> I had no idea that was the case! We also talked last week about Sentric Music<\/a>. What is it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>I can\u2019t say how they operate now because they\u2019ve been purchased by a company called Utopia. Before they were sort of like a mini Kobalt. Sentric had a no-advance deal model, and you could get out of your deal within 30 days. They would register and try to collect your money for you. They also provided some sync services. It was a flexible type of company. Some writers liked that a lot. But like I said, I\u2019m not sure how they function now since they\u2019re owned by a bigger company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> So it seems like as an artist you just need to figure out what you need and what you want to do because it is out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> I do talks all the time called the Artist Journey<\/a> and I tell people they need to know who they are and what they want to do. If an artist has an idea of what they want to do and a willingness to take a risk in terms of delaying revenue, does that mean that they can find a deal to suit them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah. I think there\u2019s enough variety in the different models, whether it\u2019s a Kobalt, a Sentric or an independent label. You could also just start by registering with one of the societies and collecting the money yourself for the time being until you feel you need a publishing deal in place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Most of our writers have a manager in place to help them with their careers and these sorts of decisions. I\u2019m not saying you should go out and get a manager straight away, but here, the London grapevine is pretty small so if people are out networking, writing songs and playing gigs, somebody will hear about it quickly, and then it gets on the A&R grapevine. Lots of opportunities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>I have a publishing question, do writers need to sign assignment details with PRS\u2019 for exclusive licenses?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> I\u2019m not an admin expert, but generally what happens is a songwriter will affiliate with a performing rights society. You can be a member of that society and also have a publishing deal with Kobalt for example.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

PRS<\/a> (Performing Right Society) will collect all of the money from wherever it comes from and out of that total performance income, half of it goes back to the publisher to recoup their advances (if the artist got an advance), and half of it goes directly to the writer. The publisher also collects the other part which is the mechanical income part. So as a writer, you can join PRS, if you don\u2019t have a publisher, and then they would pay you 100% of the performance income. And if you also joined MCPS<\/a> (collects and distributes mechanical royalties to songwriters, composers and publishers) as a writing member they would pay you all of the mechanical income as well. So you\u2019re not giving them anything, they just have the mandate to collect income for your songs but they don\u2019t own the copyright of your music or anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also be aware that in most territories, half of the value of a stream is classed as a performance income and the other half is classed as mechanical income even though there\u2019s no physical thing. That\u2019s generally just how it works. So, for the value of one stream: 80% of the value goes to the record company, and 20% goes back to the songwriters and the publishers. Of that 20%, half is usually mechanical and half is performance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>OK, interesting!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller:<\/strong> It\u2019s not the same in all territories so that\u2019s what makes it more confusing, but that\u2019s a very general overview.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>That\u2019s good to know, I didn\u2019t even know about that breakdown. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>Ok Miller, one last question. How would you take a songwriter from zero to hero?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Well, I had the good fortune to sign a young lady called Corinne<\/a> Bailey Rae<\/a>. She was working with a writer that I published, and he sent me a song called Like a Star <\/a>that she\u2019d written. I thought it was great, but no one was interested in signing her to a publishing deal at the time. As an independent, I decided to take a risk and signed a publishing deal with her. It took about 3 years for her to release her first album. During that time, I got her to work with Mark Hill<\/a> and a bunch of other writers and she eventually started working with the 2 guys<\/a> who wrote: \u201cPut Your Records On<\/a>\u201d. It was a long process of finding her people to write with to get the best songs from her, but we finally got there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As always, it comes down to having a great song. You can become successful on TikTok and YouTube, but if you have a great song you\u2019ve won half of the battle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>Yeah, there are a few artists who got dropped, and then ended up becoming big later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah. Alicia Keys is one I can think of.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>And Lana Del Ray, Aretha Franklin.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yeah! Usually what I find is that if you scratch beneath the surface, the artists who have become successful have done a ton of work behind the scenes that no one has known about. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any shortcut to success. Lil Nas X did become famous quite quickly through TikTok, but he\u2019s proven that he can write hit after hit which is another important thing – longevity. That\u2019s a real skill to be able to keep going and reinvent yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>That\u2019s a great place to end – work on the music and the rest should fall into place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Yes! The better the song, the more likely it is to get synced and the more people will listen to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Thank you so much, Miller, that was a great chat!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Miller: <\/strong>Thank you, I hope that\u2019s helped. Sorry I couldn\u2019t give a clearer roadmap to success!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I tell everyone – there is no linear path in this business.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"template":"","format":"standard","tags":[],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nKobalt Publishing, Miller Williams - Live - #HowWeListen from Byta<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Miller Williams of Kobalt Publishing delves into the world of K-Pop, J-Pop and also discusses the developing African music ecosystem.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/miller-williams-part-ii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Kobalt Publishing, Miller Williams - Live - #HowWeListen from Byta\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Miller Williams of Kobalt Publishing delves into the world of K-Pop, J-Pop and also discusses the developing African music ecosystem.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/miller-williams-part-ii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"#HowWeListen from Byta\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/facebook.com\/BytaLtd\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-09-27T02:52:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/miller-readnow.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1024\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"592\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/miller-readnow.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@BytaLtd\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"12 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/miller-williams-part-ii\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/miller-williams-part-ii\/\",\"name\":\"Kobalt Publishing, Miller Williams - 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