{"id":6794,"date":"2024-09-30T21:08:27","date_gmt":"2024-09-30T21:08:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/?post_type=in-conversation&p=6794"},"modified":"2026-02-16T08:22:01","modified_gmt":"2026-02-16T08:22:01","slug":"nancy-lu-part-ii","status":"publish","type":"in-conversation","link":"https:\/\/byta.com\/howwelisten\/in-conversation\/nancy-lu-part-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Live In Conversation: Nancy Lu (Part 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

In part 2, Nancy Lu explains that contracting a publicist usually involves a flat retainer rate rather than payment based on results. She emphasizes the importance of reports in public relations; these documents demonstrate the publicist’s efforts and adherence to the artist’s goals, serving both as accountability and progress checks. Nancy also highlights the delicate balance of achieving tangible outcomes, the necessity of clear communication of both successes and failures and the potential need to adjust strategies such as release timings to optimize campaign effectiveness.<\/em><\/strong><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is part two of the conversation transcript. Miss part one? Click here to go back<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc Brown: <\/strong>When I talk to artists they often don\u2019t seem to realize how much responsibility for success lies on their and their manager’s shoulders. Talk to me about the \u201creport\u201d?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy Lu:<\/strong> This kind of goes back to what we were saying about how when you contract a publicist you\u2019re not necessarily paying them for results, a lot of time it\u2019s just a flat rate, on retainer. It\u2019s really important that whenever you bring someone on, your team does diligent work, but also that results are produced. For publicists, it\u2019s basically that you\u2019re contracted for as long as you can produce results. It\u2019s a little bit of an unspoken rule, but that\u2019s really how it works. \u201cReports\u201d are a way for people to show, internally, that you\u2019ve done the work and reached out to people. The report is an opportunity to show the artist and the rest of their team that you\u2019ve listened to them and what their goals are and acted on all of them. At the end of the day, if you\u2019re showing the report and there\u2019s nothing positive in it they\u2019re sort of looking at the fact that you did the work but don\u2019t have anything tangible to show for it. That\u2019s not a great situation to be in as a publicist. It is important to be able to communicate both positive and negative views and let people know what is and is not working, they need to know. That is also when we can have a bigger conversation and consider switching things up like releasing a single early or something like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>There are so many nuances when it comes to PR. Giving and getting feedback means there\u2019s more you can learn when working together, which is why the report is so important. When you reach out to people on behalf of an artist, do you expect them to say yes right away, or do you go back to them 6 months after initial contact?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> It depends on what it is that you’re pitching. For example, if you\u2019re pitching news, you could follow up much sooner since it\u2019s more timebound. Also if you\u2019re pitching something like a full album, you have to do that months in advance so following up too soon after, asking if they\u2019ve listened to it, doesn\u2019t make sense. It is important to think about what it is you have asked for and when you want them to run the story, then base that on when you\u2019re going to follow up. I always like to say \u201cfreedom within framework\u201d<\/strong>, because there is always a framework, of course, but nothing is ever set in stone. As you said, there are so many nuances, like is what you\u2019re pitching a fit for the writer or publication? Some stories will only take 30 minutes to put together and others might take a month of research and tapping into different people and stakeholders. Never be afraid to reach out to somebody, especially if you feel like a particular journalist will love your project. Worst case is that they don\u2019t respond but you should always go ahead and reach out. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>When I have talked to newer artists, people are generally surprised when I tell them to email or DM people. Do you think that works – the cold reach out<\/strong>?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t hurt to cold reach out <\/strong>to people. I would always try to get them on the medium that you think they use the most. For most people, that\u2019s usually email and I generally like to contact people using what\u2019s going to look more professional, versus more casual like Instagram or Twitter. I\u2019m not saying that you can\u2019t do it like that, but it should be two sentences max – not an email pitch that you copy and paste into social media. Also be cognizant of holidays, time differences and things like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> When you were talking about a new project I was thinking about this tech guy who wrote a book called \u201cThe Cold Start\u201d. That is a really good term to describe a new artist who might not have a lot going on yet. I\u2019m assuming you get a lot of queries from new artists who have very minimal streams and want to become huge. Can you talk about that journey from when someone\u2019s just starting out, to when they\u2019re ready to work with someone like you, and what steps they can take to propel themselves forward?  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> For new artists, the number one thing to acknowledge is that to be successful, the work just doesn\u2019t stop when you finish the music – it\u2019s a constant job. That means planning out what you\u2019re going to post on social media, trying to play shows, and reaching out to managers or booking agents. One thing about agents and managers, they want to work with you when you have a bit of a buzz around you, so the reality is that you won\u2019t be able to get a booking agent when you don\u2019t need one. They\u2019re not going to magically generate stuff that you couldn\u2019t get on your own, because it\u2019s more like outsourcing when you don\u2019t have the time or the expertise to take it to the next level. So especially in the beginning, you can actually do all of those different jobs and pull those pieces together. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>I would also argue that another good reason to do these things is so that when things start to build they’re coming to you down the line with knowledge of what you need to be successful at your job. Is that not correct? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>Yeah, exactly. You want to be somebody who is doing whatever you can to generate awareness about yourself and build a little fan base. Then there\u2019s a bit more to the story than just \u201cI put out a record\u201d. The media landscape is always changing. A couple of years ago, we used to say that it was all about the music but that doesn\u2019t really fly anymore. These days, fans want to feel connected to the artists they\u2019re listening to. The only way you can accomplish that is by sharing things about yourself on different social media channels. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>You need to build context around who you are. Before you could let the music do the talking, which is romantic, but now you need to give context to make the listener feel like they\u2019re special. Is the goal to stand out from the crowd? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>You want to stand out but that doesn\u2019t necessarily mean being a total clown, unless that is your vibe. People want human beings to connect, the artist must be a true authentic person. Gen Z are especially way more cognizant about things that are important to them, whether it be the environment, sustainability, all of that – they have a greater care for the world. So if there is an issue that is important to you, how can you incorporate it into your project? I\u2019m not saying to invent things, but again if there is something that makes you who you are, really let it show. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> From my experience when you talk to artists you have to repeat yourself 15 times that it\u2019s all about timelines. Let\u2019s talk about that since it\u2019s so foundational. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>So if I was an artist and I just finished a great record, I would want to put it out immediately. But I think it benefits artists to spend time to plan the rollout. After that plan is put together, if it includes a publicist, you need to get the right publicist on board because they\u2019ll be with you throughout the whole rollout. So that kind of addresses the point of timelines, you can\u2019t approach publicists too late. I\u2019ve had situations where people have approached me a week before or after something has come out, and in both of those situations I\u2019d pass because it isn\u2019t set up for success. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> Right, because where are the opportunities, right? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> Yeah you\u2019ve essentially missed all of the opportunities for news pieces. There is also being too early, that\u2019s less about a specific release and more about an artist’s lifestyle. So if you\u2019re reaching out to a publicist and you have no music out, or music that has less than 1,000 streams – your money is better spent elsewhere. If you haven\u2019t built up enough of a following or enough of a story for journalists to be interested, you probably want to put the money into digital marketing or production or something like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>I\u2019ve heard of a PR person who might accept a contract too late or too early, but I guess what you\u2019re saying is that if you wanted to do that, you need to understand what the expectations are based on the tools that the PR person is given…<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>Yeah, based on the tools but also where the artist is.  There are a lot of situations where an artist hires someone to do publicity but isn\u2019t happy with the results. Remember there are no guarantees in PR, we are pitching someone or something so it is a bit out of our hands after that. If it is a disappointing experience, hopefully, you can take what you learned from that rollout and apply it to the next one and make the necessary changes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure you\u2019re very busy with inbound stuff, but I assume loads of people working in PR would also reach out to people that they like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>Most publicists primarily work on inbound requests and outbound is a bit rarer. I\u2019ve only ever done it a little bit because I don\u2019t like to step on anyone\u2019s toes. I probably wouldn\u2019t reach out unless they don\u2019t have a publicity contact anywhere. But if they do have an existing publicist, I wouldn\u2019t try to get into that situation.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>You mentioned Gen Z earlier and the changing landscape,  would you agree that it\u2019s more complicated now than ever to do what you do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy: <\/strong>Yes, it is complicated. Every time there\u2019s a shift in the industry, it is usually because of people experimenting and integrating new tools out there, with the result being that an artist or single blows up. Once that happens, everybody starts looking at that example and trying to replicate it until it becomes the new normal. We\u2019re always shifting and moving.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>This sets the perfect stage for my last question, AI and how that will come into play. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> I think AI will only help to improve workflow and to shorten process time. So whether that be writing a press release more quickly or looking for some more concise language, it\u2019s useful. I don\u2019t think it\u2019ll replace publicists and I truly don\u2019t think that AI is as scary as a lot of people have made it out to be. I think it\u2019s a great tool to make us better and faster at our jobs. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marc: <\/strong>People don\u2019t realize just how creative publicists are. From going through the proposals, talking to artists and managers, getting their goals and creating a plan – it\u2019s a lot! I think that the insights and personalized plans are irreplaceable, so for me, it\u2019s obvious AI can\u2019t take over this space because the human creativity behind what goes on is often discounted. On that note, Nancy, thank you so much for chatting, it was super interesting! I hope I get to talk to you soon. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nancy:<\/strong> Thank you, Marc.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"template":"","format":"standard","tags":[],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nLive In Conversation: Nancy Lu (Part 2) - #HowWeListen from Byta<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Live In Conversation: Nancy Lu (Part 2) An interview where they share their experiences and advice for those in the music industry. 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